22' Express: What's it worth?

Discussion in 'General Conversation' started by gw204, Jul 14, 2019.

  1. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    I've been casually looking for a 220 Predator for a few years now and so far have been unsuccessful in finding one that meets my requirements for condition and/or budget. However, I recently ran across a '95 22 Express just a few miles from my house. The boat has been sitting along side the highway with a For Sale sign on it for about two months now. The sign originally said $14,800 and as I looked it over, I determined that I wasn't interested at that price. Recently I noticed that a different For Sale sign was up, so I stopped for another look and saw the price has been dropped to $11,000/obo. Called the seller a few days later to get some more info...

    He said he was the original owner and was very quick to tell me how much he has invested over the past year or two in repairs and replacements. Rebuilt velvet drive, something about motor work, new canvas, new cushions (interior and exterior), new hoses, belts, pulleys, etc. He invited me take a look so I grabbed my son and we headed down the road to go over more thoroughly.

    Neglected is the best way to describe this boat.

    Hull - seems solid. There's a crack on the bow where the two hull halves meet and evidence of gelcoat repairs by the bow eye. I don't know if these are a result of how the two hull halves are joined or not. Some stress cracks and broken hardware on the transom. Some impact cracking above the rub rail in spots. Stringers appear solid from the sounding I did on them.
    Gelcoat - looks like it hasn't seen wax in 10 years.
    Running gear - chips and dings in the prop.
    Cockpit - deck and gunwales seem solid. Panels over the tanks are fastened securely and there's no evidence they've ever been pulled up. Center sections seems looks like it may have been off at one time or another. Fish box lid isn't soft, but has seen better days.
    Engine cover/cockpit seat - has been pulled up before and not all the mounting screws were replaced. Biggest issue here was evidence of water penetration in the port side gunwale. I could push up on the glass from the bottom and see water squishing around. The damage extends up into the helm area where I was unable to access.
    Engine - fresh water cooled, hourmeter reads 679. The hoses I could easily see are dated 2016. Risers and manifolds look like they are overdue for replacement. Access to do any work on it looks horrific unless you pull the seat and engine box.
    Trans - silver paint over green. Based on that I'm assuming this isn't the original gear box.
    Hardtop - overall good condition. Seemed to be mostly well designed aside from the top. It felt like a thin fiberglass skin and didn't seem well supported. Definitely room for improvement...but not an urgent need. Canvas looked new.
    Wiring - pretty messy. Loose wires in the cockpit, poor splices down by the trans, generally unorganized under the helm and in front of the motor.
    Cabin - passable. Cushions were new and the headliner was clean enough. The main issue in here was the floor just inside the cabin door was soft. There's a small cut in that spot so someone either started investigating or started a repair and never finished.
    Trailer - seems undersized but I would only use it for winter storage. 3 or 4 tires are good. If I ever decided to get mobile with this boat, it would get replaced.

    So, I was hoping you guys could give me an idea of the value of this thing. I know it's rare, super rare and that account for something but this thing needs work. I'm not hard up enough to pay a premium price for garbage.

    Thanks.

    Brian
     

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  2. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    More pics...
     

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  3. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    And more...
     

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  4. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    Last set...
     

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  5. lwarden

    lwarden Well-Known Member

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    These are great looking hulls, probably the prettiest of the newer shamrocks in my opinion. From your description it looks like you have done a pretty decent survey and identified the deficiencies. The damage at the bow is a little more than the normal stress cracks and should be re-glassed and gelcoated. I'd be planning on pulling the engine and trans and getting it cleaned up and replacing anything which looks dodgy. As you stated, manifolds and risers will need changing. You would be surprised how well it will clean up, and likely you will be able to get a very good shine on it as well with some compounding. Wiring on these boats was mediocre at best and even one taken care of has wiring issues which need attention.
    State of the hull is similar to my 2000 260 Express when I got it. PO was not very clean... It came up really well after wet sanding and compounding.

    I guess the big question is how handy are you? Can you do your own glass work and gelcoat? If you have to pay someone to work on it, I'd suggest passing on this and looking for a cleaner version. But if you are really in love with the model and are handy and don't mind putting some work into it, I'd say you have a nice starting point. I'd guess if you could get it for $8,500 that would leave some headroom for materials to get it back to shape. The only thing I see that is a little concerning is the underside of the deck ply. Some areas look wet in the last couple of photos. These will not be easy to sort and working upside-down is never fun.
    Get it for a good price and don't keep track of what you spend and just enjoy the ride....
     
  6. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    Thanks.

    To answer your question, I'm pretty handy w/ glass and gelcoat. I've made some subtantial repairs to previous boats...the most complex was a full transom on a 17' Mako. Ended up selling the boat before the project was finished though, but I had most of the structural work complete. That being said, in the interest of time I would probably farm out the bow damage since I tend to work slow and I want something that I can use pretty soon after purchasing.

    That number is pretty close to what I had in mind. Was thinking of offering $7500 and being ready to come up a bit. I'm going to stop again today and sound the transom. Since seeing the boat the first time, I've learned that's it most likely wood cored above the water line and some of those broken/missing bolts, stains and stress cracks are concerning.

    Thanks again.
     
  7. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    Ugh. Stringers are shot at the transom. Couldn't reach the stbd one, but I was able to easily sink a screw driver into this core.

    Strange thing is they sounded ok when I beat on them with the handle of a big screw driver. So I suspect this damage runs pretty far forward.

    Left a voicemail for the seller. I might still consider this if the price drops enough but I don't think he's going to agree that the boat has structural damage.
     

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  8. Gary S

    Gary S Well-Known Member

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    I would just like to add that in the closeup picture of the bow eye it looks like something like paint is flaking off,gel would not do that
     
  9. lwarden

    lwarden Well-Known Member

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    Been a number of discussions about stringers on this site and rotten wood inside. Some have suggested the stringer beam strength lies mainly in the box section of the glass over them and the wood could be considered a mold and therefore the integrity of the wood isn't a big factor. That depends on how thick the layup is of course. That is a pretty big hole through the stringer, is that for drainage? They typically just slopped some thickened resin around limber holes through the stringers and bulkheads and over time it cracks and flakes off.
     
  10. gw204

    gw204 Active Member

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    I've heard the same thing. Personally, I don't subscribe to that theory and even if someone were to prove to me that that rotten core was not a problem, it would still bother me and I would be planning on new stringers.

    I'm not sure what that hole is for. There's an identical one on the stbd side. Nothing runs through them and they are too high off the hull bottom to be for drainage.

    Anyway, no word from the seller so I think this one is dead...
     

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